To Weld or Not to Weld... - Page 3 - Machine Underground -Tractor & Commercial Equipment Discussion Forum

Dougster · 06-02-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edster

A I can say is use grooved welds and preheat. Works all the time. How do you think we weld a 4" thick flange on a column. By their standards we should be using machines with about a 10,000 amp out put. That is not the case. Your machine should be able to do what you are doing. Just gonna take more passes and more time.

Spoken by a man who owns a gosh-darned Miller Bobcat!

Personally, I think I am doing great with the little Hobart 187, but what the hell do I know?

I'm probably not "getting" the heat and speed thang perfectly right yet... but I use the chart and I seem to be putting down fairly good welds (in my most HUMBLE opinion!!!).

But the guy at the welding supply shop thought I was nutz and gave me a 15-1/2 minute explanation why. The bottom line is that he feels an excavator bucket needs major IMPACT resistance in certain areas and major ABRASION resistance in others. Personally, the way that I work on so many rocks, I need IMPACT resistance practically everywhere. He showed me a bunch of specs and... sure 'nuf: There are MUCHO better wires to use than NR-211-PM.

But they all require a Big $$$ machine.

Dougster™

**Kennyd** · 06-02-2008, 06:30 PM

I personally would NOT run .045" wire in your machine...
My MM210 LOVES .030" wire-eats it for lunch! great smooth arcs. .035" is pretty good also...

Keep in mind, I'm just a HACK! So take my advice with a grain of salt here...Also I don't use flux core-only solid with a 75/25 gas mix.

PS. All the repairs on that bucket I did where done with .030" solid core off the shelf wire.

Dougster · 06-02-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kennyd

I personally would NOT run .045" wire in your machine...
My MM210 LOVES .030" wire-eats it for lunch! great smooth arcs. .035" is pretty good also...

Keep in mind, I'm just a HACK! So take my advice with a grain of salt here...Also I don't use flux core-only solid with a 75/25 gas mix.

PS. All the repairs on that bucket I did where done with .030" solid core off the shelf wire.

Well, I must admit: That is very encouraging to hear after the lecture I was given by the guy at the welding supply shop.

I've been debating taking the bucket off and and moving it into the garage where I could work on it with solid core wire & gas. But I have no welding stand right now and welding on the floor is not exactly my best position.

Besides, I am running very short on time here.

The .045 stuff is ordered (roller and liner anyway), so I have to buy them now. I think I'd like to try them anyway since I did better going from .030 to .035 in my assorted practice and test welds. At this stage, it's good that I try as many different approaches as possible.

Dougster™

**Kennyd** · 06-02-2008, 06:57 PM

Yes Doug you MUST try for yourself...

My "welding bench" is the el-cheapo Black&Decker WorkMate you kind of see in the photo's I posted.

Dougster · 06-02-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kennyd

Yes Doug you MUST try for yourself...

My "welding bench" is the el-cheapo Black&Decker WorkMate you kind of see in the photo's I posted.

Actually, a local store is selling them for $20 apiece this week. I had forgotten all about that. They must be "Made in China" now to be so cheap.

Maybe I should run over and buy a couple?

Dougster™

Theweldor · 06-02-2008, 10:42 PM

I wasn't trying to run you broke. I was trying to explain all the options. None of that wire is cheap. Bevel everything good. Preheat everything to about 250 - 300 degrees and weld it up with the NR-211. It will be a good test for you and you might as well use it some where.Like I said I have put a lot of big stuff together with 211. But the past 8 or 10 yrs I hae switched to better wire. Also they have started making more varieties of flux core wires in the past few years. There can't much of anything on that bucket be over 1/2" thick I wouldn't believe. That salesman was hoping to persuade you into buying a machine from him. He has to have a hamburger to you know! LOL You can always buy one from him down the road when the time is right.
Look at it this way. If the tooth gets pulled off. You will get more practice welding.
Look at the tooth next to it. Try to get about the same amount of weld on it.

Dougster · 06-02-2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theweldor

I wasn't trying to run you broke. I was trying to explain all the options. None of that wire is cheap. Bevel everything good. Preheat everything to about 250 - 300 degrees and weld it up with the NR-211. It will be a good test for you and you might as well use it some where.Like I said I have put a lot of big stuff together with 211. But the past 8 or 10 yrs I hae switched to better wire. Also they have started making more varieties of flux core wires in the past few years. There can't much of anything on that bucket be over 1/2" thick I wouldn't believe. That salesman was hoping to persuade you into buying a machine from him. He has to have a hamburger to you know! LOL You can always buy one from him down the road when the time is right.
Look at it this way. If the tooth gets pulled off. You will get more practice welding.
Look at the tooth next to it. Try to get about the same amount of weld on it.

Well, I'm about practiced out with the .035 wire... so it's time to attack some production work tomorrow. I'll probably start on those cutting edge "spacers" I bought last year to reinforce the bottom of my Mahindra/KMW light-duty FEL bucket!!! That will make me feel good 'cause it will instantly be saving me the $150 for three welds that each of the two local welders wanted.

After that, I will move on to the dilapidated ULDM bucket and start to do some serious damage.

Just let me know if you think I should stall a bit, do a little painting and go for that .045 NR-211 or not on Wednesday. It's about $100 in total for the roller, liner, nozzles and a 10-lb spool of .045 wire. If it will help hold those bucket teeth together, I'm all for it.

If there is no big difference, I'll still pick-up the roller and liner I ordered (~$40)... but hold off on the nozzles and wire (~$60).

Dougster™

Theweldor · 06-02-2008, 11:25 PM

If you can put down a good solid weld with the .035. HAVE AT IT. Save your pennys. It wouldn't hurt to have the .045 kit. It will come in handy. I am surprised that Airgas didn't have the .045. That is pretty common wire. Most everything I get has to be ordered because noone around here runs big flux-cored wires.
Let me know how you make out.

Dougster · 06-03-2008, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theweldor

If you can put down a good solid weld with the .035. HAVE AT IT. Save your pennys. It wouldn't hurt to have the .045 kit. It will come in handy. I am surprised that Airgas didn't have the .045. That is pretty common wire. Most everything I get has to be ordered because no one around here runs big flux-cored wires.
Let me know how you make out.

Thanks Theweldor!

We'll see how I make out today on the FEL bucket's cutting edge "spacers" (I'm effectively making a deeper, flatter cutting edge on the LD bucket) and then I'll make a decision whether or not to wait for the .045 wire set-up.

It's supposed to rain on Wednesday, so I may not be losing any time at all since I must get some painting done today... we shall see.

Welding supply stores keep changing hands around here. Some close, some are sold, some swap ownership... it is weird. Airgas used to be BOC gases and the local store is kinda small. The guy is helpful and now greets me by name when I walk in!

Airgas closed it's other local store. They have some Miller parts in stock but most stuff must be ordered in from other, bigger stores. Wire tends to be their own captive brand.

I found another convenient local welding supply store that also just changed hands... or at least changed the name on the front door. It's a little more expensive than Airgas on most stuff... but they seem generally better stocked and a bit more knowledgable. Since Airgas likes to sell it's own captive brand of wire, I'll probably be buying the name brand stuff from this second shop. The second shop does stock the .045 Lincoln wire in 10-lb spools.

Dougster™

Edster · 06-03-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theweldor

The E-71T-8 classification of wires will be a lot better choice for your critical work. They have better Charpy notch values and elongation rates. Makes them much better wires for equipment repair. They tend to have what I huess you would call just a little flexibility which is important with the grade of steels used in thee manufacture of equipment. You will want to grind the cracks almost all the way through before you weld them. Just welding over top of the cracks only covers up the problem. You will need to get the weld just as thick as the original material was. Otherwise it is a complete waste of filler metal and time. I don't know how many times I have seen people just weld over a crack or weld a plate on without first repairing the original crack. Although that's what keeps me in business. Another note on those wires. I am not sure if they are made in .035 and .045. I run mostly 1/16 and 5/64 and once in awhile some 3/32 flux-cored.

Doug,
Just puttering around. Listen Lincoln's wire that meets the E-71T-8 classification is NR-233. This is one of the other wires we use onsite