To Weld or Not to Weld...

**Dougster** · 05-31-2008, 11:39 AM

As some of you know, despite my rekindled effort to purchase two new mini-excavator buckets (one digger, one ditcher), I've also elected to repair the old dilapidated Yanmar bucket (the used and abused one that came on the used mini-ex when I bought it) and keep it handy as a spare and rough-duty bucket. For this purpose, I have purchased four new teeth and pins... and will likely purchase new side cutters as soon as Monday. The bucket itself will need some "reshaping" on the bottom (where it is partially caved in) and rewelding. This particular welding should be no problem at all with my newly learned skills and my new MIG welder.

But I have a question about how to deal with two heavily worn down tooth mounting shanks (the outside ones). I know that the correct solution is to grind off the worn tooth mounting shanks and replace them with brand new ones... but it turns out that this is a cost prohibitive solution. It looks like I have four remaining choices:

1) Mount the new teeth onto shanks "as-is" with new pins

2) Mount the new teeth onto shanks "as-is" with new pins and also weld teeth onto shanks from the outside

3) Build up the worn shanks by welding and grind into their original shape. Mount new teeth with new pins.

4) Build up the worn shanks by welding and grind into their original shape. Mount new teeth with new pins and also weld them on from the outside.

Comments please from "TheWeldor" and anyone else who might have any relevant experience or good thoughts.

Dougster™

**Kennyd** · 05-31-2008, 02:19 PM

With out seeing your bucket, I'll not give you advice on this...

BUT:

My wife's cousin has a JD Mini-EX that I borrow when I need it. My payment to him is to either service it and/or repair stuff he breaks-lucky me.

The last "payment"to him was to replace the four teeth, because two had fallen off. Well, he hadn't told me they fell off a long time ago! The two outside shanks wore worn down enough that the new crimp-on teeth would not stay on! What a PITA! So, I ground out the welds for the outside shanks and replaced them. I forgot to take picture of the old shanks before I removed them, but you get the idea I am sure. I scolded him for letting this happen, and he promised to keep extra teeth and replace them immediately if one falls off! I went through about 12 cutting/grinding disks! Not sure how much wire and gas. I wanted to get some hardfacing wire but the local shop would only sell me 25lb spools and I did not have time to order any before he needed it again.

So far, they have stayed on!
Here are some pictures:

**Dougster** · 05-31-2008, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Kennyd

With out seeing your bucket, I'll not give you advice on this...

BUT:

My wife's cousin has a JD Mini-EX that I borrow when I need it. My payment to him is to either service it and/or repair stuff he breaks-lucky me.

The last "payment"to him was to replace the four teeth, because two had fallen off. Well, he hadn't told me they fell off a long time ago! The two outside shanks wore worn down enough that the new crimp-on teeth would not stay on! What a PITA! So, I ground out the welds for the outside shanks and replaced them. I forgot to take picture of the old shanks before I removed them, but you get the idea I am sure. I scolded him for letting this happen, and he promised to keep extra teeth and replace them immediately if one falls off! I went through about 12 cutting/grinding disks! Not sure how much wire and gas. I wanted to get some hardfacing wire but the local shop would only sell me 25lb spools and I did not have time to order any before he needed it again.

So far, they have stayed on!
Here are some pictures:

You are a very patient (and talented) man Kenny!!!

You are doing it the right way... the way that I should be doing it but can't afford to.

If I told you how much Yanmar wants for two "tooth replacement kits" (delivered like all their parts via drop shipping)... you simply would not believe it.

Dougster™

**PaulChristenson** · 05-31-2008, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Dougster

You are a very patient (and talented) man Kenny!!!

You are doing it the right way... the way that I should be doing it but can't afford to.

If I told you how much Yanmar wants for two "tooth replacement kits" (delivered like all their parts via drop shipping)... you simply would not believe it.

Dougster™

Dougster you are a victim of the old business adage...
IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY...

The more current version of that adage is now...

IT TAKES A LOT OF MONEY TO MAKE A LITTLE MONEY

**Theweldor** · 05-31-2008, 06:37 PM

Dougster
If you don't want to replace the shanks. {Which I don't blame you} Make a cardboard template of one of the good shanks. Build up the worn onesand carefully grind them back to fit your template. If you weld a little and try the template it will save a lot of grinding. I can't think of the name of them right now. But there is a version that goes on with a quarter turn. Easco teeth I believe they are. I have somewhere dimensions for those shanks. It is not uncommon to repair shanks. Grinding them off is way more work than one realizes. I can air-arc them off in about 15 minutes and weld them back on in about 20. But one must remember I have been at this about 25 years and have the toys to make that look easy. BOTTOM LINE Build em up and pin em on. I wouldn't weld them though as that requires wire to match the properties of the teeth. They are usually pretty hard and it is hard to find MIG wire that will match there wear capabilities.

**Theweldor** · 05-31-2008, 06:59 PM

By the way forgot to ask how you like your new found welding machine?

**Dougster** · 05-31-2008, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by PaulChristenson

Dougster you are a victim of the old business adage...
IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY...

The more current version of that adage is now...

IT TAKES A LOT OF MONEY TO MAKE A LITTLE MONEY

It's a slightly different adage for the poor old Dougster™:

"It takes money to lose money"

Dougster™

**Dougster** · 05-31-2008, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Theweldor

Dougster
If you don't want to replace the shanks. {Which I don't blame you} Make a cardboard template of one of the good shanks. Build up the worn ones and carefully grind them back to fit your template. If you weld a little and try the template it will save a lot of grinding. I can't think of the name of them right now. But there is a version that goes on with a quarter turn. Easco teeth I believe they are. I have somewhere dimensions for those shanks. It is not uncommon to repair shanks. Grinding them off is way more work than one realizes. I can air-arc them off in about 15 minutes and weld them back on in about 20. But one must remember I have been at this about 25 years and have the toys to make that look easy. BOTTOM LINE Build em up and pin em on. I wouldn't weld them though as that requires wire to match the properties of the teeth. They are usually pretty hard and it is hard to find MIG wire that will match there wear capabilities.

Originally Posted by Theweldor

By the way forgot to ask how you like your new found welding machine?

Ask me after tomorrow!

I just picked up the (optional, extra cost) Miller flux core nozzle late yesterday. I had to order it... but I wanted it for a couple of very critical welds I have to make on the ULDM. Didn't do too much with the new welder before that. So far so good... but tomorrow starts the real production welding (weather permitting, of course!).

Message received and understood on repair of the shanks. Many thanks for relating your experience and giving your professional opinion!

I'll let you know how they turn out! No laughing please!

Dougster™

**Theweldor** · 06-01-2008, 07:23 AM

Keep in mind that most of the flux cored wire that is self-shielded runs DCEN for polarity. If it is self-shielded be sure not to use any gas. Are you using Lincoln wire for consumables? By the way solid wires and flux core that uses gas run DCEP for polarity. If you get any porosity in your welds the first place to check is the voltage setting. Too high will cause pinholes.

**Dougster** · 06-01-2008, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Theweldor

Keep in mind that most of the flux cored wire that is self-shielded runs DCEN for polarity. If it is self-shielded be sure not to use any gas. Are you using Lincoln wire for consumables? By the way solid wires and flux core that uses gas run DCEP for polarity. If you get any porosity in your welds the first place to check is the voltage setting. Too high will cause pinholes.

Thanks Theweldor!

I will be using Lincoln .035 flux core wire (It's the most common one available around here... plus I had to use up a gaggle of Lowes credits!). The machine came set-up (wired) for flux core except for the lack of the flux core nozzle, which I have now added.

Believe me, I'll be practicing with it a LOT before I attack those critical welds on the ULDM (my "ugly little digging machine"). I cannot afford to make a mistake or have a weak weld there. I'll probably do the work on my old Mahindra FEL bucket and the ULDM's toothless, dilapidated bucket before attacking the more difficult & delicate work. Gotta get those heat settings and wire feed speeds down perfect before doing the most critical work.

Dougster™

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