Check my math - Machine Underground -Tractor & Commercial Equipment Discussion Forum

**LoneCowboy** · 05-03-2008, 09:35 PM

So, went to look at this lady's house and she has an old pond that's never been used and she wants to fill it back in. (would be much better filled back in, now it's just wasted space)

They just pushed all the dirt right next to the pond (so there's a big berm on one side)

It's 150ft long, about 20 feet wide, about 10 feet deep. (best guess)
that's 30,000 cubic feet, or about 1100 cubic yards.

In the past I moved 260 yards of compost around a yard with a 1/3 yard bucket and did that in about 7 to 8 hours. That's about 30 yards an hour. Which is right, because I could just keep up with the semi's

However for this one I'm going to rent a small front end loader (JD 303J), 1.2 yard bucket and I don't have spread it around, dig, turn dump, turn dig, not much driving around.

so, twice as big of bucket, that's 60 yards, not as far to move, maybe another 50% effieciency, that's 90 yards an hour.

12 hours of work? 2 days of work? to fill it back in, rough grade it back to flat. (figure I can do some of that with my smaller tractor and a box blade), doesn't have to finish grade.

it looks like 2 days of work, but if I mis-bid this, it's not just my time, it's the rental fees too that I get killed on.

You buy that? Make sense? too short? too long?

Oh, has trees on the berm, but all the trees will be cut down and removed, but the stumps will still be there. most trees are 2-3" trees cottonwoods/russian olives. A few are 6", but that's it. I figure the loader should just roll those stumps over and into the backfill.

**Ducati996** · 05-03-2008, 09:57 PM

Its cutting it close with what you mentioned under ideal conditions for 2 days, so I would go with 3 days. You are figuring working a straight 12 hours just to keep the pace? Thats rough and sounds like unecessary pressure. Go with at least 3 days IMO

Dougster · 05-03-2008, 10:08 PM

I don't exactly agree with some of your math Lone... but two full days of actual loader work sounds about right. Don't forget rental delivery and return times plus refueling arrangements. You may also need a statement from your business insurance agent covering the rental machine. I don't know of a 303J but I am somewhat familiar with the 304J. It is a materials moving monster compared to our tractors.

That being said, you are not dealing with compost and you also need to be keenly aware of the compaction ratio of whatever soil or fill you will be using. I suspect you will need a lot more than 1,100 cubic yards and you better be ready to have it delivered ASAP or it will cost you an extra rental day.

I'd also ask why the trucks can't deliver the soil or fill directly into or very close to the pond... in which case renting a bulldozer for one day (instead of a loader for two days) might make a whole lot more sense.

Dougster™

Underdog · 05-03-2008, 10:09 PM

All those figures make me dizzy.
Cannot find a picture of JD 303J.
With my equipment one day; maybe a long day, but a days work.

**LoneCowboy** · 05-03-2008, 10:49 PM

opps, sorry, it's a 304J
Features of the John*Deere 304J Four Wheel Drive Loader

The dirt pile is literally right next to the pond. It's the exact amount of dirt that they scraped out. I shouldn't need any more (probably need less). Although it's a good thought to put in the proposal that we are only moving the existing dirt. Think manure pit at hog farm, that's what it looks like. Someone just came in with a bulldozer and scraped this out and pushed the dirt right alongside it.

Oh, it will have to be delivered, already got that part of the quote done. it weighs like 12,000lbs. Let them deliver it. I've got a fuel tank on the truck so can just refuel when I'm done. My gosh, they might charge me $4 per gallon to refuel it. Oh, sorry, flashback there to the 90's. Probably will be $10/gallon if they have to refill it.

Dougster · 05-03-2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneCowboy

opps, sorry, it's a 304J
Features of the John*Deere 304J Four Wheel Drive Loader

The dirt pile is literally right next to the pond. It's the exact amount of dirt that they scraped out. I shouldn't need any more (probably need less). Although it's a good thought to put in the proposal that we are only moving the existing dirt. Think manure pit at hog farm, that's what it looks like. Someone just came in with a bulldozer and scraped this out and pushed the dirt right alongside it.

Oh, it will have to be delivered, already got that part of the quote done. it weighs like 12,000lbs. Let them deliver it. I've got a fuel tank on the truck so can just refuel when I'm done. My gosh, they might charge me $4 per gallon to refuel it. Oh, sorry, flashback there to the 90's. Probably will be $10/gallon if they have to refill it.

Opps... sorry Lone. I guess I was daydreaming when you mentioned the excavated soil still being there on-site.

The 304J is closer to maybe 14,000 lbs... but I would still vote for using a medium size bulldozer if available... if for no other reason than I think it is the correct tool for the job.

Dougster™

**LoneCowboy** · 05-03-2008, 11:09 PM

I agree a bulldozer is probably the right tool for the job.
But I've never run a bulldozer and while I'm sure I could get it down, a guy not knowing can do a lot of damage with a dozer.

i am, however, pretty damn good with a front end loader (I know, I'm very humble, I hear that a lot) so that I can do. Plus a dozer is more money per day and it would take longer (because I don't know what I'm doing with a dozer, a good dozer guy could whip it out I'm sure)

although the wheeled loader will do a lot less damage to the existing pasture getting to and from the area than the dozer will.

Underdog · 05-03-2008, 11:16 PM

TRACK LOADER, if i could pick a tool for that job.
If that soil has been there awhile it could be difficult to break out.
Teeth and tracks .......................
Or a Dozer with a ripper

**PaulChristenson** · 05-04-2008, 03:59 AM

Just how wet is this pond?
Because the dirt you put in it could turn to MUD!
You may NOT be able to get all the way into the pond without getting stuck...Just a thought to consider...

So if you have to work around the edges your time constraints may be too tight...

One other point, just strong are the edges of the pond?

**LoneCowboy** · 05-04-2008, 10:10 AM

The pond is currently dry (although it may be mushy at the bottom)
I don't figure to ever drive on the bottom

Take from the pile
dump
take from the pile
dump
take from the pile
drive on what I dumped (to compact it)
dump
continue for hours.