Tailrotor

Hi , All
This is my first post and was wondering about a few things. I am starting a new excavating and landscape business and in the middle of trading in My B26 on a L45 Moving up a little.

This is my first real run at making any extra money with the kubota and was wondering what the going rate is for a machine of this size ( L45 ) That is. Will be doing stump removal and ditches, clearing and grading, fire wood cutting and rock removal. Nothing real big or crazy because I am the only employee. And also I have a full time job.

I live in southwestern PA and was wondering how I should charge by the hour or Job. Thanks to all for the replies in advance.

Ducati996

Welcome to the M.U! you picked the right place to get the info you need but we may break it down into two or more parts

First the tractor! thats a fine choice and a big upgrade from the B26 (no slouch either)
Tells us more about the choice an options and trailer setup etc...when are you getting it?


As for the Business end - thats more involved and in the other forum and will take some time and many questions...but starting off the right way by being legit - licensed and insured before you dig your first hole...

Understanding your market and what your costs will be and whats the next best alternative that your customers have in front of them, will help you estimate the potential of your location.

Kubota L39 w/WR long RGB Grapple, Bradco Pallet forks, Backhoe QA buckets, and more!
JD 2520, 210Cx, 46BH
Cub 3204 with Blower & Simms Cab
Ford 2006 F550 turbo diesel 4x4 w/11' mason dump
Wright Stander RH 52",
Better Outdoor Product Quick 32" mower!

"I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather … not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car."

"I'm never wrong. I once thought I was wrong, turns out, I was mistaken"

Tailrotor

While ducati996, I am having both aux hydraulic options installed, Hydraulics thumb, 12,18 inch B/H buckets, 72in H/D front bucket with tooth bar. New land pride box blade, grapple bucket. And may be the remote hydraulics also. My business is all ready established and ready to dig my first hole. Thank you for the intrest in my post.

Tailrotor

Ducati996
Almost for got have not got the trailer yet waiting on the tractor then will see exactly what I need. Still working with the dealer with price and trade in. I love my B26 and it has done everything I have asked of it just a little slower. I also have a BX2230, with FEL, which I use for mowing grass and small chores around the house. Just thought if I am going to do any work outside of the home need something a little faster. Time is money.

Dougster

Welcome to the MU! As a less-than-successful ditch digger, you should probably listen to anyone else but me... but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway:

I do have an "official" hourly billing rate, but it has never been charged yet. Instead, I quote work on a half-day and full-day basis that includes all machine and attachment/implement/dump trailer transport costs. For jobs of 3 billable days or more, I apply a 10% discount. For jobs of 5 billable days or more, I apply a 20% discount.

Whether they know it or not, everyone gets quoted the exact same rates. I also bill for "productive time" only... a method I use for equalizing my costs running solo against bigger or smaller equipment and crews.

Around my area, a compact TLB w/operator averages about half the cost of a full-size TLB w/operator (which will vary with market conditions). Perhaps a more important pricing factor is competition in your area from Bobcat operators, large and small, legal and illegal. Availability of rental equipment in your area is also a pricing factor as well as availability of/access to dump truck(s) and/or dump trailer(s).

Dougster™

PaulChristenson

Well, most people don't care how long the job takes, within reason..., they want to know what the JOB is going to cost them...

You will create your work grid for yourself on how many hours it takes YOU to do a job, then throw in equipment depreciation, fuel costs, transportation costs, profit and assorted taxes, and so-on and so-forth...and then you present your customer with the MAGIC NUMBER for the JOB...

The guy you want to talk to is LC, that's Mister LoneCowboy, to you......I can't remember which site it occurred on, but HE and FarmWithJunk had a very informative discussion about the numbers...

Paul in VT

I used to own an ant farm but had to give it up. I couldn't find tractors small enough to fit it.
-- Steven Wright

http://www.wunderground.com/US/VT/Bu...typeclick=big2

LarryRB

Tailrotor, I have a few suggestions,, #1 you are throwing money away by buying an 18" bucket. Get a 12 and 24. Having an 18 in the middle of the most used two, is wasting it for nothing,, I had a L 48 TLB which I just got rid of 2 weeks ago and did exactly what you are going to do.,.. The first thing is, know your area,, Are they all white collar, blue collar,. mixed, miners only or most still unemployed in your area. This will give you an idea what people can afford, I took the cost of the machine, divided it by 6000 and came up with a figure, add to this inland marine insurance and liabilty both of which are fixed costs,, The 48 is expensive to do a complete oil and filter change, when you have to buy 18 gallons of super UDT oil, engine oil, and filters,, expect to be in it for $500 to $600.. Most changes will run $150-170. Once you get into changing the hydro oil and filters again nearer 600. SO every 50 hours is oil and filter change and every 100 it is all of it,, 200 hrs a year and you quickly spent $1500 on basic maintenance.. Payments if you have them are divided by 6000, the expected maintenance by the same, fuel at 8 gallons per day times costs times the whole year and divided by 6g, depreciation, your hourly or daily costs.. On my machine all this added up to 63 dollars per hour plus 50 to move and 50 to move back, by trailer the machine. There are other variables that one can think of,, your mileage may vary but this should give you a stepping off point.

"this morning I woke up with nothing to do, it is now afternoon and I have over half of it done".
Digging in hard clay is more relaxing to a worm than going fishing..

Tailrotor

Thanks , Guys I do appreciate it. I live out in the county and work is still good, ( Not great but good.) I am not in this for a full time job or looking to be either. I will use the machine at my home also I have 7 plus aces and it needs a lot of work. Just thought why not try and off set the payments a little if I can. I am new to the work for yourself thing have always worked for the man you know what I mean. If I can do 4 or 5 jobs a year I am golden. And most of the area that I live in, is Blue collar workers like myself. Have to think about the 12 and 24 inch buckets don't know if I need anything that wide and what kind of job I would do with a bucket that big. I am going to pick and choose my jobs I don't have to make money with the machine but I would like to. ( A little anyhow ). I kind of expect to take a loss for the next 3 1/2 years or so anyhow. Thanks for all the replies and information guys.

LoneCowboy

No offense, but clearly you don't even know what your costs are.
You have to figure out what your costs are before you even start.
Honestly you haven't done a bit of research and you want it for free, so here it is and you aren't going to like it.

Larry just gave you a good start on the tractor itself.
Now you need the truck and trailer maintenance and depreciation.

You don't mention what state you are in
But, in most states
ANY BUSINESS (no matter how small)
workman's comp (sometimes not required, but your regular health ins won't pay)
unemployment insurance
some states (NY for one) tax services (meaning you have to charge your customers sales tax and send it in)
you'll need a business checking account and an EIN
you'll need to file either a DBA, LLC or corp and file taxes for/on same
Liability insurance (not cheap for excavators)
commercial vehicle insurance. (it's not your personal vehicle anymore, they won't cover it if you get in an accident, it's also about double personal rates, you'll also need it for the trailer)
Many states you'll have to register the truck and trailer as commercial also and sometimes get it inspected.
Inland marine insurance for the equipment (about $7/$1000 covered, m/l)
In some states you need a USDOT #. In all states you ARE a CMV when hooked to the trailer (over 10,001lbs) which means you need name of business/phone number on side of truck and a log of your time (can be as simple as a time card)
All states tax business equipment, most call it personal property tax and there's sometimes a sticker proving that you paid it. Every year, like registering a car.
Transport time, including loading and unloading and hooking up equipment.


So, in the end, you won't really make any money, you'll just put hours on your machine that aren't really paid for. "look, I made $50/hour" (or whatever), meanwhile your costs are way higher than that in depreciation/maint/etc and in about 2 years you'll slowly come to that realization and not take any more jobs.

Meanwhile you'll have taken jobs from people who are trying to make a living at it and you've undercut their rates because you aren't properly accounting for your costs and you THINK you can make a profit at X rate even though you aren't paying taxes, insurance, etc.

That's just my opinion based upon your post and desire for me and others to share our hard won knowledge for free while you haven't even done any research.

I could be wrong.


But I doubt it.

Brian H
Longmont CO
Pasture Maintenance, Manure Removal & More
NH TN75DA, NH TC45D, NH LS185
06 Chevy Duramax 2500HD
03 Freightliner Columbia MBE 460
99 Mack RD688 20' dump truck E7-350

LarryRB

tailrotor,
I am going to be a smart alleck here,,, I have been around backhoes for a good number of hours.. somewhere in the vicinity 0f 35 years give or take a week.. I have never once in that time saw a need or a specialty job that required and 18" bucket,, THey are a waste of money,, A 24" bucket that you may think is large is actually on the small side of normal and expected. When digging for a foundation, piers, and whatever, professionals measure footings in 12 and 24 inch increments never a foot and a half or odd numbers.. when asked to move a pile or whatever,, I want to move it in a reasonalbe time, and safely too,,, Not going to happen with a 18 especially when digging spoils and there are large boulders that just don't fit in a 18" bucket safely... You do what you want, if I was the salesman I would be all over you for throwing money down the drain. As far as the 12" yes,,, all root balls and any underground wiring, single drain pipe, cable tv, etc are done with a 12"..

"this morning I woke up with nothing to do, it is now afternoon and I have over half of it done".
Digging in hard clay is more relaxing to a worm than going fishing..