Being a patriot this AM - Machine Underground -Tractor & Commercial Equipment Discussion Forum

**Mickey** · 08-17-2009, 02:33 PM

Headed down to Salem this AM to attend my Rep's. local town hall meeting.

Was well attended and audience was well behaved in comparison to what we've seem on the tube.

Questions taken by a lottery and didn't get called on. By audience response it was obvious the vast majority were against HR3200.

My biggest disappointment was a reply by my Rep. when his response to a ? about the constitutionality of this measure, he said "there is nothing in the constitution that says everyone can't have guaranteed health care." Sure wish he was more informed about what is actually in our founding documents.

If your rep is holding one of these town hall meetings, try and attend but be courteous to opposing views.

**irwin** · 08-17-2009, 07:16 PM

I don't know what to think right now. Health Insurance rates are insane now, almost $9,000.00 per year, per man. I ask you, how much longer can small businesses go on like this? The rates have about doubled in 8 years .....

Doing nothing about health care costs is not an option. If all small businesses stopped offering a health care package, that would add how many people to the un-insured ranks?

This isn't about politics..it's about greed, deep avarice almost to a man.. in the insurance biz, in the doctor offices, in the hospitals, in the drug manufacturers bottom line. Some of the people that pay for all this high tech medical aid are thinking costs can't be passed on to the consumer anymore.

I also think people that cry the loudest against any change in the system, cry because they don't want to lose a golden goose. or have been lead to believe the system doesn't need any help.. it does need a lot of help.

The big problem is who to believe, what is the motivation for change? Manipulate the laws to get personal gain? or maybe pay a large contributor back for their support? No one is trustworthy .. back to greed.

LarryRB · 08-17-2009, 08:42 PM

I won't argue that some kind of change has to happen, I will argue that it shouldn't be the U.S. of A.. Again today, two different doctor visits at the VA. I'm so beyond f-----g fed up with a useless VA system, one that I have personally wrote Presidents since Carter, and many senators all without a word or response back other than we recieved your letter... I won't waste time with this Obama. A supposedly simple system, (VA) is si screwed up one hadnd doesn't know what the other is doing and the worse is a life time contract that they will not follow... Slightest little change and your gone.. I can imagine what a open federal system, I use the word open for anything other that VA or vets using a system.,. would be like... You can try to convinve me till the cows come home... I wouldn't vote for or agree with any of it.. AND I did say something has to be done. Irwin if you are paying 9gs a year, your not like Mass that avg's 1300 per month per employee for a family plan... Not to say 9g's is easy to cover, because it isn't.

**Mickey** · 08-17-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irwin

... This isn't about politics..it's about greed, deep avarice almost to a man.. in the insurance biz, in the doctor offices, in the hospitals, in the drug manufacturers bottom line. Some of the people that pay for all this high tech medical aid are thinking costs can't be passed on to the consumer anymore.

I also think people that cry the loudest against any change in the system, cry because they don't want to lose a golden goose. or have been lead to believe the system doesn't need any help.. it does need a lot of help. .. back to greed.

Having a hard time agreeing with this Tim. After spending >25 years working for a medical equipment co., I have a different view. Unless you have walked in the shoes of the people you have sited, you have no idea what it is like to do business in the medical field.

Within a yr of retiring, the co. I worked for bailed out of the medical business. The handwriting was on the wall and becoming ever more difficult to do business in this field. They had been a major player in the equipment business with a good record.

If you are looking for answers for lowering cost, a couple area to focus on in legislative reform so Dr's. and hospitals aren't forced to practice defensive medicine. Adds considerable cost to health care when we're talking of problems more serious than hang-nails and common cold. Another area is the fact that FRAUD is costing Medicare and Medicaid $100 billion annually. Neither of these 2 items are being given any real attention in any of the bills now being considered. Free medical care to illegals is crippling some hospitals and state government is some of the SW states. Yet a good portion of that number being talked about as the number of un-insured are illegals.

Nephew had to file bankruptcy due to a mt. of medical bills that exceeded his insurance. Dr's and hospitals bugging him all the time. Hospital told him if he has been an illegal, they wouldn't have even attempted to make collection.

Complex problem, no simple answers, but what is being considered now will make things worse IMO.

LarryRB · 08-18-2009, 04:52 AM

medicare is a sham.. A good friend of mine, who's wife works from the small hospital in Lexington NE, and still goes to homes, for pregnant women and helps for the births, has complained for years about medicare. She and a few other doctors have their own group. She see's an elderly woman, bills medicare, it gets turned down... Told to re-bill,, She has this done,,, In the meantime, that elderly lady is back. Send in bill two,,, It is turned down for some unknown reason. Dr Carlson says this goes on constantly,, then,, 6 months later, she gets a check for all the past plus all the double and triple billing from being turned down,., Now medicare goes after her for fraudulent billing.,.. We, ( a veteran helicopter group on the net) read this almost weekly from her husband.. SO, here is a big problem that has to be addresses some how,..

**Dougster** · 08-18-2009, 07:58 AM

I only have two (non-political/political neutral) thoughts on this mess:

1) Anyone who wants to try on socialized medicine for size can come here to Taxachusetts. Better do it quick before our wonderful new system here collapses. And I can't just blame the corrupt MA Dems for this mess 'cause this was originally Mitt Romney's baby.

2) Until the Jim Sokoloves

of the world are brought under control, there is no hope whatsoever for lower medical costs. Medical malpractice insurance bills are completely out of control due to scum-sucking trial lawyer parasites like this disgraceful piece of subhuman excrement

Dougster™

**Ducati996** · 08-18-2009, 09:03 AM

Like it or not you have a fundmental conflict of interest - those who want to make a profit on you and your health, and the insured who just wants to stay healthy. Who looses everytime here? who wants to play the odd's with their health and say its not true?

Like Your Health Insurance? Maybe You Shouldn't.

By Simon Johnson and James Kwak
Tuesday, August 11, 2009; 12:35 AM

If we fail to reform our health care system this year, a major reason will be that a majority of Americans are satisfied with their health coverage and believe that reform could hurt them. According to a recent (unscientific) Consumer Reports survey, 64 percent of readers are satisfied with their plans -- down from 67 percent in 2007, but still a clear majority. A recent New York Times poll found that 59 percent of Americans do not think that health-care reform will benefit them personally; 69 percent are concerned that reform could harm the quality of their own care and 68 percent are concerned that it could limit their access to treatment.
This is deeply misleading, for two reasons. First, what does it mean to say that you are satisfied with your health insurance? Consider homeowner's insurance. Until you need it -- your house burns down -- you have no way of judging its quality. The same goes for health coverage; until you have a serious illness, the kind where your plan's limits and exclusions may kick in, how do you know if your health coverage is any good?
For one thing, as the House Energy and Commerce Committee uncovered, some insurers go out of their way to revoke coverage for people with serious health problems by looking for mistakes on their original applications. For another, you could be underinsured, like 29 percent of all people with health insurance, according to Consumer Reports. It is politically relevant that two-thirds of Americans seem to like their health coverage, but whether they should like it is another question.

The second problem is that the health coverage that most satisfied Americans have -- employer-based coverage -- is less secure than they think. In America today, we have three main health insurance systems. At one end we have Medicare and the Veterans Health Administration, which (although many anti-reform protesters don't realize it) are government-funded and government-run programs, and generally popular ones. At the other end we have the individual market, in which individuals buy insurance policies directly from health insurers. The individual market is completely broken; according to a recent Commonwealth Fund study, 73 percent of people who tried to buy individual coverage in the last three years did not end up buying a plan.
In the middle we have the employer-based system, which according to the U.S. Census Bureau covered 59 percent of the population in 2007. The employer-based system is good and bad. On the plus side, it solves the fundamental problem of the individual market. Again, think about homeowner's insurance. The insurance company figures out how much your house is worth, estimates the chances of it burning down, multiplies those numbers together, and charges you that much (plus a little to cover expenses and profit) in premiums. That is, the cost of a policy should be related to the expected costs of that policy to the insurer.
Now translate this to health insurance and you'll see why the individual market is broken. If you have a serious illness, like cancer, your expected annual costs could easily be $60,000. The insurer has to charge you at least $60,000 for coverage, or else it will lose money. You can't afford that, so you go without insurance. According to the Commonwealth Fund, 70 percent of people with health problems found it impossible or very difficult to find affordable coverage in the individual market. In short, a "market" for health insurance works only if you prevent insurers from doing what insurers naturally do -- discriminate among people according to how risky they are.
The employer-based system solves this problem. Employers can spread the cost of health insurance across their workforces, so that all employees are treated equally, regardless of their medical history. Furthermore, the tax rules governing employer-provided health care require that employers offer plans that treat all employees equally. The result is that if your employer provides health coverage, you can probably get it.
However, the employer-based system has two major weaknesses. First, and most obviously, it means keeping your health insurance is dependent on keeping your job. That means that your health is only insured to the extent that your job is insured -- and your job isn't insured. If you lose your job, or get a divorce from the spouse whose employer covers you, you have to find a new employer who offers a health plan, or you will be stuck in the individual market. Alternatively, if you get sick, you may be stuck in your job, no matter how much you may want or need to leave it.
Second, employers are dropping their health plans; the percentage of people covered through an employer has dropped from 64 percent in 2000 to 59 percent in 2007, and that decline is likely to accelerate. Why? Because, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation survey, the average annual premium for family coverage has already increased from $5,791 in 1999 to $12,680 in 2008 -- a 9 percent annual increase -- and a study published in Health Affairs forecasts that national health spending will grow at an average annual rate of 6.7 percent until 2017. Arithmetically, with each year that passes, it becomes harder for companies to keep their health plans without reducing benefits, reducing wages or increasing employee contributions to health plans.
The bottom line is that your current health plan may not be as good as you think it is, and there is a good chance that it will not be around when you need it.

Health-care reform comes in several different flavors these days, but the basic minimum is that it allows all people to buy health insurance regardless of medical history, and it provides subsidies to help poor and middle-income families buy health insurance. That means that if you get sick and lose your job, you will still be able to get health care. That is something that everyone should be in favor of -- because everyone can get sick and lose his or her job.

**jbrumberg** · 08-18-2009, 01:14 PM

For better or worse, I am alive today thanks to my wife's health insurance plan, COBRA, and MA funded partial COBRA reimbursement. I am probably uninsureable by any private insurer at this point; Medicare is my only option. Jay

**irwin** · 08-18-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Having a hard time agreeing with this Tim.

.

I see one group I missed. I started with the greed of insurance companies.. I should of started with Lawyers.

(tip-o-the-hat to Doug)

tomwilli · 08-18-2009, 06:12 PM

Hi Guys,

Popular topic since a Cdn shows up in American commercials expounding upon the failures of the Cdn Medical system.

Covers everyone .... well yes ????

Provides adequate coverage .......well yes ??

No premiums to the user .... well no.

You see, it is funded by the gov't so it is paid out of your taxes. Additionally, in Ontario, the gov't imposed a $50.00 per month tax on everyone that works or gets pension, etc.
This special tax was to fund the health care system in Ontario.
Well advertising for health care programs and exercise programs and all other such nonsense came within the realm of this tax so most of it is wasted. Additional taxes on employers for same thing.

I have had a variety of exposures to the medical system over the years.
Oddly enough, no major operations for me or my spouse. Had some issues with my 1 daughter re heart at birth. Issue was resolved in a couple of years but the process kept you jumping for years more. Genetic testing, genetic counselling, etc, etc. That crap just didn't matter and was a waste of health care $'s.
Because I would not quit smoking, I was told the Dr's were wasting their time on me and I was a waste of health care $'s.
Keep in mind, saw the Dr only a once per year and sometimes once every 2 years instead.

The health care system wastes money. Needless testing ( sometime to cover their ass ) but mostly just to shut the patient up as the patient will get better by the time the tests are over.
Blood tests because I have a cold ??

So, I had a heart attack. Drove to local small hospital. Diagnosed, arrangements made to transport, the next day, to larger city for heart repair.
Next day by ambulance in to the city hospital, had procedures and next day ambulance back to local hospital.
One day there because couldn't find a Dr to release me and home I went. Clean, fast, easy.
Problems... well they didn't tell my wife what time I was being sent away nor when the op was etc. So she literally had to search around to find me and to see if the operation was successful and I live or succcessful and I died.
But otherwise ok.

In Ontario, you never see a hospital the in not under construction to make it bigger. Only time not under construction is when they are closing it.

Health care here is a business. Simple as that. They will do what they can to support their business interests including a lot of fear mongering.

I could go on but, I guess the way I am looking at it now is that health care here is like a hidden tax for the most part. Being run by the gov't, it is inept and inefficient but does kinda work most of the time.

And, I do not have to pay out of had for insurance for most medically necessary procedures.

Statistically, from Jan 1st each year untll the end of June each year, all the money I make goes to all the taxes that I pay here is Canada. So, somewhere, hidden in that 6 months worth of taxes is my health care premium.

Long post ........ sorry.

Later
Tom