Shoot - Machine Underground -Tractor & Commercial Equipment Discussion Forum

bob1944 · 02-08-2008, 09:25 AM

I went out to the shed yesterday to start the conquest and the battery was dead. I'm getting cabin fever real bad. I thought a little ride would perk me up from the winter blahs. The conquest is 4 years old so a new battery sounds like a normal maintenance problem. I hope spring is just around the corner. Retirement is great except in the cold months. My golfing partner and I purchased a golf cart cover and heater so we have managed to play golf once a week. Can't wait to start the spring lawn chores though. I have a earthway towable spreader and an agri-fab plug aerator thats fun to play with. See ya

**Ducati996** · 02-08-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob1944

I went out to the shed yesterday to start the conquest and the battery was dead. I'm getting cabin fever real bad. I thought a little ride would perk me up from the winter blahs. The conquest is 4 years old so a new battery sounds like a normal maintenance problem. I hope spring is just around the corner. Retirement is great except in the cold months. My golfing partner and I purchased a golf cart cover and heater so we have managed to play golf once a week. Can't wait to start the spring lawn chores though. I have a earthway towable spreader and an agri-fab plug aerator thats fun to play with. See ya

keep those batteries on trickle chargers and it will last 4 extra years! and then you will be always ready to roll on those warm days in winter!

Mayor · 02-08-2008, 09:12 PM

I have been thinking of hooking one up in my shed but I have not run power to it. If I need lights etc I just run the generator. Does anyone use a solar set up. This might be a good fit for my needs and others.

Northern Industrial Solar-Powered Trickle Charger — 5 Watt | Solar Solutions | Northern Tool + Equipment

**PaulChristenson** · 02-09-2008, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayor

I have been thinking of hooking one up in my shed but I have not run power to it. If I need lights etc I just run the generator. Does anyone use a solar set up. This might be a good fit for my needs and others.

Northern Industrial Solar-Powered Trickle Charger — 5 Watt | Solar Solutions | Northern Tool + Equipment

Just make sure your unit will NOT overcharge...Here is my choice...

12V Solar Battery Maintainer 5.5W - Solar Battery Chargers - Silicon Solar Inc

This will allow you to skip the generator for lighting...
Solar Shed Light

Mickey · 02-09-2008, 02:49 PM

Lead Acid batteries have a very low self discharge rate. The low wintertime temps reduce the self discharge rate even further. But with the low temps, the battery is less able to provide heavy current loads starters demand.

Winters are mild here and all I do when I put away the equip in the fall is to make sure the batteries are fully charged. Come spring I'll hook up a charger for a few min while I check the fuel and oil levels. Batteries tend to last 5 yrs on avg.

As for over charging, an automotive sized battery can handle a 2A charge rate in definitely without worry of over charging. A 5-6 watt charger is a little less than .5A. No way that small of current is going to hurt a battery. Even using a large charger, if the charge voltage isn't any higher than 13.8V, you can't over charge the battery.

**PaulChristenson** · 02-10-2008, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Lead Acid batteries have a very low self discharge rate. The low wintertime temps reduce the self discharge rate even further. But with the low temps, the battery is less able to provide heavy current loads starters demand.

Winters are mild here and all I do when I put away the equip in the fall is to make sure the batteries are fully charged. Come spring I'll hook up a charger for a few min while I check the fuel and oil levels. Batteries tend to last 5 yrs on avg.

As for over charging, an automotive sized battery can handle a 2A charge rate in definitely without worry of over charging. A 5-6 watt charger is a little less than .5A. No way that small of current is going to hurt a battery. Even using a large charger, if the charge voltage isn't any higher than 13.8V, you can't over charge the battery.

Without some sort of "float" system in your charger, which means it stops the 2 amp effort...bad things result...

Exide Technologies FAQs - Marine & RV Batteries
Can you overcharge a deep cycle battery?
Overcharging a battery occurs when the battery remains on charge after it has reached full charge. Overcharging causes excess heat that can cause the plates within the cells to buckle and shed their active material. Also, the battery will react to the overcharge by producing excess hydrogen and oxygen as the water within the electrolyte breaks down. The water that is lost due to overcharging can be replaced in a non-sealed battery; in a sealed battery the water loss is permanent and will negatively effect the battery's service life.

Car and Deep Cycle Battery FAQ, Battery Manufacturers and Brand Names List, and
16.2. How do I prevent permanent sulfation?
The best way to prevent sulfation is to keep a lead-acid battery fully charged because lead sulfate is not formed. This can be accomplished in three ways. Based on the battery type you are using, the best solution is to use an external charger in a well ventilated area that is capable of delivering a continuous, temperature compensated "float" charge at the battery manufacturer's recommended float or maintenance voltage for a fully charged battery. For 12-volt batteries, depending on the battery type, usually have fixed float voltages between 13.1 VDC and 13.9 VDC, measured at 80° F (26.7° C) with an accurate (.5% or better) digital voltmeter. [For a six-volt battery, measured voltages are one half of those for a 12-volt battery.] This can best be accomplished by continuously charging using a three-stage for AGM (Ca/Ca) or Gel Cell (Ca/Ca) VRLA batteries or four stage for wet (flooded) batteries, "smart" microprocessor controlled charger. If you already have a two-stage charger, then use a voltage-regulated "float" charger or battery "maintainer", set at the correct temperature compensated float voltage to "float" or maintain a fully charged battery. If you need Web addresses or telephone numbers of charger manufacturers, please see the Chargers and Float Chargers and Battery Maintainers sections of Battery Information Links List. A cheap, unregulated "trickle" or a manual two-stage charger can overcharge a battery and destroy it by drying out the electrolyte.
A second method is to periodically recharge the battery when the State-of-Charge drops to 80% or below. Maintaining a high State-of-Charge tends to prevent irreversible permanent sulfation. The frequency of recharging depends on the parasitic load, temperature, battery's condition, and battery type. Lower temperatures slow down electrochemical reactions and higher temperatures will significantly increase them. A battery stored at 95° F (35° C) will self-discharge twice as fast than one stored at 77° F (25° C). Standard (Sb/Sb) batteries have a very high self-discharge rate; whereas, AGM (Ca/Ca) and Gel Cell (Ca/Ca) VRLA batteries have very low rates. Please see Section 7.1 for more information on battery types.
There are trade-offs between the economics of continuous "float" charging, where self-discharge and resulting sulfation does not occur, and periodic charging with the increased potential for a shorter battery life due to permanent sulfation. If you decide to periodically recharge the batteries while in storage, increasing recharge frequency, disconnecting any parasitic load, or storing them in colder temperatures will impede the self-discharge and reduce the possibility for permanent sulfation, but will also reduce the total number of life cycles.
A third technique is to use a solar panel or wind or water generator designed to "float" charge batteries. This is a popular solution when AC power is unavailable for charging. The size of a solar panel or wind or water generator required will depend on the average amount of available natural resource, battery capacity and temperature. Normally a five watt or larger panel is required for an average car battery. A charge controller (voltage regulator) is required when the peak current output exceeds 1.5% of the amp hour capacity of the battery.
A desulfator may be used in conjunction with any of the above methods.

Mickey · 02-10-2008, 05:06 PM

Paul, the typical charge method for LA batteries is constant voltage. The very nature of that charing scheme means charge acceptance is self regulating. For a nom 12 V battery, it can raise to ~13.8V and remain there for a considerable time without harm. "float charge" votage can range between 13.2 & 13.8 for a nom 12V battery. A float charger does not shut the charger off, it controls charge rate by controling the voltage. I'd never leave a battery on a charger IF the charger didn't have a regulated output voltage. For these small float/maintainer chargers that have very limited output current they will not and can not damage an automotive sized battery. We're talking charging ~1% or less of the battery capacity.

Now cheap chargers that have a high output voltage or even automotive electrical systems that run at 14.2 - 14.5 V, that a different story.

In electrical terms, voltage can be thought of as pressure. You have the pressure from the charge source working against the pressure in the battery. The charge rate is greates when the battery is low and as the battery voltage rises, the charge rate decreases. When both the source and battery reach the same voltage there is no current flowing.

Think of this charging scheme like syphoning a liquid between to containers. Flow rate is greatest when the liquid levels are not the same and as the levels get closer to being equal, the flow rate decreases and stops with they are equal. No magic controls in the charger, just proper regulated voltage.

Some background on my knowledge of LA batteries and hope I'm not coming across as a know it all as that is not my intent. Several decades ago while an eng for a major electronics co. I undertook a study or LA batteries for use in a piece of critical medical electronic equipment I was working on. I was the first looking at LA batteries for this application and within a couple yrs, the whole industry had moved to them.

Don't claim to be an expert and not everone will agree with my position but on the otherhand I've never had problems with short battery life. The tractors goes months during the winter without a charge and the motorhome is on a charger 24/7 if I'm not on the road.