Dougster

With all the Yanmar Construction Equipment "dealers" (wink, wink) in New England being a bunch of hapless, useless turds... and with the Internet and other distant sources also letting me down... and with TAG buckets for my VIO35-3 being impossible to get hold of otherwise... the old Dougster™ was in quite a bind... until today!

Caterpillar to the rescue!!!



It turns out that the Yanmar VIO35-3 can use buckets made expressly for Caterpillar's fine 303 CR and 303.5 CR mini-excavators. They fit perfectly... and I can buy them 10 minutes up the road at Milton CAT in Milford, MA!!! Plenty in stock... all sizes... zero waiting!!! Prices are comparable to or better than prices for TAGs at most of the New England Yanmar "dealerships".

Just waiting for a final check on used stock before buying brand new tomorrow morning. This will be the second CAT bucket in my "fleet"... the first one, an insanely rugged toothed skidsteer digging bucket, belonging to the Mahindra 4110's FEL.

Win one (finally) for the poor old Dougster™!!!

Dougster™

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Kennyd

Good for you Doug!

When I first started reading, I thought you where going to say "screw the Yanmar.......I bought this new Cat Mini

John Deere 4110HST
FEL, MMM, FEL Forks (homemade),I-Match, Ballast Box, #380 plow (modified to fit) Markham LD-48 Grapple, and lots of other STUFF.

Dougster

Ha!!! Long before the Yanmar came along... and even before my earlier conclusion that a KX91-3 was the ideal machine for me... I was drooling over the Caterpillar 303C CR. A couple used ones had gone on eBay for relatively short money (key word: "relatively") so I started to think that a Caterpillar could be in my future... but it never worked out. Best I could find locally was a several year old ex-rental for $30K and a near new privately-owned one with a thumb for $42K. No Dougster-grade bargains there. I love the CAT equipment, but I'm not quite there yet.

Dougster™

Dougster

Well, it turns out that nothing is simple in the poor old Dougster's world and there is a potential hitch or three on the CAT 303 buckets.

It turns out that the CAT 303 buckets that are available to me all have bolt-on teeth. Now I find out that CAT has been having problems with its bolt-on teeth breaking on its newer 303 and 303.5 buckets and they have gone back to welded-shank pin-on teeth to improve the situation. They do not believe it would be an issue on my Yanmar VIO35-3, but that is just their speculation. They have not seen the granite rocks I am routinely called upon to pry loose and move.

At first, this would seem to be a simple issue with an easy answer: Have them order a bucket with welded-shank pin-on teeth or continue shopping elsewhere. But I have been very happy with my CAT skidsteer bucket with its bolt-on teeth and I love the idea of having easily changeable teeth... in fact, field changeable teeth! And if a tooth is going to break off sooner or later, please dear God make it bolt on!!!

And so I ask: Which would you rather have: Bucket teeth that are more likely to break but are easily replaceable? Or bucket teeth that are far less likely to break, but require cutting, welding and/or pin removal if/when they do???

Secondarily, there is a thumb fit/use issue with the CAT buckets if I don't use their nice-but-very-expensive CAT 303 thumb. The answer may be clearer on this issue: Give up trying to fit together expensive unmatched components and design my own thumb to fit exactly. It could end up working better and saving me a bundle.

Dougster™

Mickey

When I started reading your post I was about to say, sometimes life looks down and smiles on you. Now not so sure if that is a smile or snicker.

As an old Eng you need to find out why the breakage with the bolt on teeth. Poor geometry, inadequate mass or even incorrect heat treat/temper. This may lead you to the right answer for you. Bolt-on teeth have a lot to offer if the reason behind the breakage is acceptable in your use-model.

1970 Bolens 1257 w/tiller
2005 Cub 3204 48" deck
Yanmar Fx24D
5' Howse rotary mower
RSB 1300 Yanmar tiller

Dougster

You are a wise man Mickey and you are exactly right. I do need more information to make an informed decision.

Don't tell anyone, but I actually went snooping in their used/work pending equipment storage area yesterday looking for smallish buckets with failed teeth. What I found was mostly a lot of bent shanks and chipped or cracked hardened pin-on teeth. I found no broken bolt-on teeth but the number of such buckets was too low to be a good sample. Plus being so easy and quick to replace, any broken bolt-on ones were probably replaced immediately when they broke anyway.

But from what I found, I see a possible answer.

Simply put, the welded shanks are apparently tempered enough to take an impact or prying (bending) load but stay intact while the hardened pin-on teeth tend to chip or crack. Because the bolt-on teeth must be entirely hardened, I suspect they lose the benefits of the "softer" tempered weld-on shanks and tend to break in brittle fracture at the bolts or the bucket's cutting edge.

It's just a working theory right now and I hope to have better answers soon. It could just be that the bolt-on teeth used were somewhat undersized... but then why didn't they just go to bigger bolt-on teeth???

Dougster™

Dougster

More relevant input this weekend from an acquaintance with several CAT mini-excavators in his employer's "fleet": The CAT mini-ex bolt-on teeth do have a tendency to break and he does not recommend them for my mostly rock removal-related work.

This is about the last straw ready to break the camel's back on this bright idea of using plentiful, local, easily-procured CAT buckets on the VIO35-3. Just one more stop this morning at a third-party excavator parts outfit near Boston to see if thicker, stronger teeth can be bought to fit the CAT mini-ex digging buckets. If that doesn't work, I am back to square one... trying yet again to find a Yanmar Construction dealer willing and able to order me a TAG bucket or other very heavy-duty brand at something less than super-megabucks and 3 weeks delivery time.

Dougster™

Theweldor

Thought I would chime in here. I have a little welding business and sometimes think outside the box. Why couldn't you replace the bolt on teeth with weld on as you break them. Maybe even some stitch welds around the outside of the bolt-ons would alleviate the problem. I have spent quite a bit of time around Cat equipment. From the little 303 to 5310 excavators moving 1/2 a million yards of rock. I haven't spent any time repairing tooth holders. Just my .02.

Kennyd

Welcome to MU Thewelder!

John Deere 4110HST
FEL, MMM, FEL Forks (homemade),I-Match, Ballast Box, #380 plow (modified to fit) Markham LD-48 Grapple, and lots of other STUFF.

Dougster

Thanks very much for your input!

You being into welding... and me being the world's worst amateur welder so far... I suspect we look at the world very differently. In fact, if I had your skills and equipment, there would be no issue here at all. I would simply repair the ULDM's existing bucket (including all new welded/pinned teeth) and be done with it! But for me to pay to have it rebuilt would cost almost as much ($800-$850) as a brand new bucket ($850-$1,100).

Buying the CAT 303 bucket with the bolt-on teeth and then welding the teeth or replacement teeth (or paying to have someone weld them) would defeat the whole purpose/advantage of having bolt-on teeth in the first place: i.e., near instant field replacement capability. Having some welded and some bolt-on would work but would drive me to drink just looking at them while I work.

BTW, I did visit that bucket parts place in Needham, MA today and they pretty much confirmed what I have been hearing: Stay away from CAT mini-ex buckets with bolt-on teeth if you are working in rocky New England. They even noted that as the teeth fail (which is bad enough), the bucket cutting edge itself deforms and wears causing the tooth bolts to have more play/wobble and not hold the teeth flat and as tightly in place... leading to accelerated breakage.

If your experience with CAT 303 bolted-tooth buckets used in rocky locations is markedly different, I'd sure like to hear more about your own experience and observations. I revisited all of my other options again today and nothing is even close to being as low cost, easy and fast for me to procure as one of those damn CAT 303 bolted tooth buckets. If you or anyone else thinks they will work well for me after all, I'd love to hear about it!

Dougster™