An Old Issue Revisited... - Page 2 - Machine Underground -Tractor & Commercial Equipment Discussion Forum

Dougster · 07-19-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irwin

Four 3/8 G70 chains, drive on further up, hook up two chains, back up til tight, then two in the rear with two 3/8 ratchet binders. Was told it was fine by a local cop. That was for the 770. Have to upgrade the trailer for the L35 to be legal.

Well, right off the bat you are starting to focus in on one of those "legal niceties" that I can no longer afford (and I don't only mean that in the financial sense). Folks everywhere are running around using 3/8" Grade 70 chains and binders on everything from lawnmowers to 1-ton SCUT's... just to "play it safe" with the damn cops. I can't do that anymore unless the law (and physics) absolutely demands it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by irwin

(I don't have the trailer registered, I used the shop's repair plate (yes, all the way to MD and back). If I did what you do Doug I'd get the trailer a real plate.

That repair plate has been used for so many useful vehicle transports, even used it to transport my horse. If I gave up auto repair work, I'd miss that plate more than anything.)

Disclaimer: I wouldn't never knowingly use anything that could be the lest bit illegal.
{Double negative are sometimes very useful}.(sshh)

The poor old Dougster™ has been known to use a Repair plate or two at times when determined to be absolutely necessary... but don't worry old Timster. Both of my trailers are registered, tax paid and fully legal right now!

Dougster™

**Ducati996** · 07-19-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougster

Ignoring (just for the moment) the related questions of trailer overload and boom/bucket tiedown, how specifically (i.e., sizes of chains, number of chains, number of binders, preferred geometry, etc.) would you personally tiedown an 8,000 lb mini-excavator with four corner attachment eyelets? If you see more than one option a cop should accept, please state the alternative(s).

No, this is not a test or a trick question (well, maybe a little!).

More of a sanity check for a poor old man's aging brain!

Dougster™

I think the hard part is finding a good spot on the machine to secure from - you mention the eylets so you are in great shape. Sounds like you will need 4 short length chains and 4 binders however, of grade 70 chain.
Plus you can weld anyting extra you need with your welder - your in better shape than most IMHO!

Right now Im using two long chains for grade 70 and two binders (1 front and 1 back). The L39 has the open tube between the FEL arms, and enough space around the backhoe main pivot base (not sure whats its called). The goal is to have 4 points of tie down, which I have along with a binder for each chain...I use firehose as the chain protecting cover so no chips to the paint damage.

**Ducati996** · 07-19-2008, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kennyd

If this question was posted on the "other site", it would turn into a can of worms and nasty very quickly! But since it's here I will reply:

The other hot button I think would be a Dino vs Synthetic square off...
yeah its not very entertaining

wont happen here no chance

**PaulChristenson** · 07-19-2008, 08:30 PM

**LoneCowboy** · 07-19-2008, 08:59 PM

that's a damn cool picture.
Having been more than my fair share of a victim/beneficiary of DOT inspections.
They want the load to be secure.
Things that aren't secured, loose chains, get dinged. IN the 4 hours I sat there, nobody got even checked for correct and proper type of chain.
If it was secure and looked reasonable (i.e. no backhoes secured with bungees), they didn't seem to care.

**irwin** · 07-19-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulChristenson

WOW !!!! It's got roller skates ..

Good find Paul...

Underdog · 07-19-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougster

Well, right off the bat you are starting to focus in on one of those "legal niceties" that I can no longer afford (and I don't only mean that in the financial sense). Folks everywhere are running around using 3/8" Grade 70 chains and binders on everything from lawnmowers to 1-ton SCUT's... just to "play it safe" with the damn cops. I can't do that anymore unless the law (and physics) absolutely demands it.
Dougster™

Well if you are unable to handle a whole chain.

Figure out what lengths are needed and make up chains for a purpose.
You could even go so far as securing one end of chain with a clevis to trailer and just leave it there. Then you would only have a short piece of chain with one end to fool with.

**PaulChristenson** · 07-20-2008, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougster

We have all seen these tables before... and I think that most of us who transport regularly use Grade 70 chain and equal (or better) load-rated binders. I also think that most of us tend to err on the conservative side with choice of chain size, etc., recognizing that The Man is prone to coming up with his own unique interpretation of DOT rules & regulations.

It can also be argued that proper load analysis of actual tiedown geometries and strength(s) of tiedown points does not necessarily support the contention that these tables are always sufficiently conservative.

Recently, the definition or intended meaning of "minimum number of chains required..." (as more fully stated below) has come up again for me in regard to the ULDM. To make a long story short, the ULDM weighs more and gets tied down differently than my Mahindra. It is gonna need new chains and ratchet-type binders (instead of lever binders/boomers)... and, for a variety of reasons, I no longer have the luxury of going far beyond the strict legal requirement as a cop is most likely to interpret it.

Ignoring (just for the moment) the related questions of trailer overload and boom/bucket tiedown, how specifically (i.e., sizes of chains, number of chains, number of binders, preferred geometry, etc.) would you personally tiedown an 8,000 lb mini-excavator with four corner attachment eyelets? If you see more than one option a cop should accept, please state the alternative(s).

No, this is not a test or a trick question (well, maybe a little!).

More of a sanity check for a poor old man's aging brain!

Dougster™

Part 393: Parts and Accessories Necessary for Safe Operation

§ 393.130 What are the rules for securing heavy vehicles, equipment and machinery?

(a) Applicability. The rules in this section apply to the transportation of heavy vehicles, equipment and machinery which operate on wheels or tracks, such as front end loaders, bulldozers, tractors, and power shovels and which individually weigh 4,536 kg (10,000 lb.) or more. Vehicles, equipment and machinery which is lighter than 4,536 kg (10,000 lb.) may also be secured in accordance with the provisions of this section, with § 393.128, or in accordance with the provisions of §§ 393.100 through 393.114.

You should have a copy of this handbook in your truck...

Driver's Handbook on Cargo Securement - Chapter 2: General Cargo Securement Requirements - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

Dougster · 07-20-2008, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducati996

I think the hard part is finding a good spot on the machine to secure from - you mention the eylets so you are in great shape. Sounds like you will need 4 short length chains and 4 binders however, of grade 70 chain. Plus you can weld anyting extra you need with your welder - your in better shape than most IMHO!

Clearly, the "4 short length chains (Gr 70) and 4 binders" (2 in front and 2 in back) should be one legally acceptable alternative assuming you use at least 5/16" chain (for my ~8,000 lb load) and equal (or greater) rated load binders. And yes, I do intend to add more and/or stronger tiedown points. Being able to weld now ROCKS!!!

But now let's bring in the issue of quickest/easiest loading/unloading time and least amount and weight of hardware. Or put another way, put yourself in the position of a hideous old one-armed man (with high blood pressure too) trying to move two 7-8 Klb pieces of equipment out to a jobsite in the morning and return it home at night. How could/would you simply or streamline (if at all) and still comply with the rules?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducati996

Right now I'm using two long chains for grade 70 and two binders (1 front and 1 back). The L39 has the open tube between the FEL arms, and enough space around the backhoe main pivot base (not sure whats its called). The goal is to have 4 points of tie down, which I have along with a binder for each chain...I use firehose as the chain protecting cover so no chips to the paint damage.

Here you bring up one of the key and oft debated issues... and I probably should have asked Tim's practice in this regard as well:

Question: Is one long length chain looped around the tractor (or any other load) in the back or in the front ... secured using one binder and two trailer tiedown points... considered a single chain ??? or a double chain ??? for purposes of the above tables and complying with DOT rules & regulations?

I certainly have my own "mechanical engineer's" opinion (hint: the b***h of it is in the details) that doesn't count worth a hoot, but I'd like to hear what others here think a cop with a bad attitude might say!

Dougster™

Dougster · 07-20-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneCowboy

that's a damn cool picture.
Having been more than my fair share of a victim/beneficiary of DOT inspections.
They want the load to be secure.
Things that aren't secured, loose chains, get dinged. IN the 4 hours I sat there, nobody got even checked for correct and proper type of chain.
If it was secure and looked reasonable (i.e. no backhoes secured with bungees), they didn't seem to care.

I guess it's a good news/bad news scenario Lone.

You folks out west seem to get hassled a lot more often but are apparently not hassled too much over weights and tiedowns... whereas it seems just the opposite around here. The mobile checkpoints are few and far between... but it seems like it's all about trailer overloads and tiedowns (at least the ones I've sat and watched).

Dougster™